Christine Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Gullible people do not deserve to be abused. Isolated people do not deserve to be abused. Vulnerable people do not deserve to be abused. People who do not recognize the red flags do not deserve to be abused. Trusting people do not deserve to be abused. Infatuated people do not deserve to be abused. Sensitive people do not deserve to be abused. Socially awkward people do not deserve to be abused. Smelly people, ugly people, stupid people, mean people, promiscuous people, and people you just don't like do not deserve to be abused. Nobody deserves to be abused. I never once said or even implied this AT ALL. My statements on this are about cause and effect and absolutely nothing to do with who is at fault. To say that people are only abused because someone chooses to abuse them is too simplistic and you list a myriad of reasons above on why they actually find themselves in abusive situations. It is not random and abusers don't abuse everyone they encounter. It is based on the dynamic between two people and if the victim abdicates all responsibility and forfeits all control of their situation then their situation will never change and they will be victimized for the rest of their lives. I am not going to discuss this any further but wanted to clarify AGAIN that I am not blaming anyone for being abused. I thought it went without saying, but obviously not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellody Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 dunno if someone said it yet, no time to read through all those pages... but apart from the fact that i really like the column and the topic he chose, i must say it makes me a bit angry that he puts this label "bitch" on the brunette, just because of that quick moment he observed. there can be a thousand reasons for her reacting like that - and mika of all people should know what it can do if you judge a person too quickly. ok, i guess this behaviour is just human, but it's one thing if you think it to yourself, maybe say it to a good friend, but it's another thing if you write it in a magazine column. even though we'll never know who that brunette is, it is not a nice thing to do. but maybe that's just me. apart from that, i find his thoughts about the whole online dating thing really interesting. that experience he made with the myspace person... he definitely has a point there. i've started online dating about 12 years ago, first in chatrooms, then on friendship- and dating-sites (never dated anyone from myspace/facebook though...) - and sometimes, especially if the guy lived in another town, we wrote so many personal e-mails and chat-messages that it already felt like a relationship although we hadn't even met in person. it really accelerated things, and when we finally did meet in person, we both weren't disappointed, because we knew we had so much in common. at first. but then you get to know each other in RL, and realize it doesn't work. on the other hand, i've also made this experience in RL, completely without the internet. the concept of "love at first sight". you immediately have feelings for someone, and because your feelings are so strong, you think you know this person, and if they also tell you that they have feelings for you, you think that their feelings must be as strong as yours. but i think it's very, very rare, that 2 people immediately fall for each other in the same way, and that it stays that way if they get to know each other. but i guess it's very common amongst (mainly female) teenagers to feel so strongly for someone else, especially if they do get a certain feedback from them. it doesn't have to be completely one-sided, but if your feelings are a lot stronger than the other one's, you still have a problem. i've learnt from my mistakes, and want to get to know someone now before i start a relationship. personally, not online. but the internet is still a good place for the first contact, it's easier there to get in contact than it is in RL. ok, that was the first thing... would like to comment on other parts of the column too, but gotta leave now. :rolls_eyes: RL is calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeiRe Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I don't believe however, that Mika was actually referring to his fans. It simply reminded me of the way a lot of people have expressed over the years that they feel about Mika. I really don't believe Mika thinks about us that much or plants passive aggressive hints aimed at his fans in random Italian magazine columns. He has other things going on in his life and occupying his thoughts, I'm sure. Actually I agree he has much more important things to focus on. Correcting myself, in case I put it wrong, which seems to be the norm: neither do I think he was for a second thinking about fans when writing this What I meant was just that one could apply the idea to oneself in order to see the light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 What I meant was just that one could apply the idea to oneself in order to see the light... Oh yes, we agree then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trix the Mubbin Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 This implies that the victim is to blame for abdicating responsibility. The only one responsible for abuse is the abuser because it is the abuser who chooses to abuse. The thing most people do not realize is that most victims do try to end abusive relationships, often before they realize they are being abused, but are frequently trappped by threats to their safety. They are told that they will never be loved again or that they cannot survive without that person or that they will become bitter husks and they believe it because they are frequently people who were socially isolated/previously abused. So, they stay because it is the safer options. They took responsibility for their safety the only way they knew how. They stayed with someone who provided love and joy and the pain was only an occasional consequence, but all relationships are hard, so it can't be that bad. It's better than being dead inside or dead literally. It is the abuser who lied. It is the abuser who manipulated. It is the abuser who took advantage of whatever vulnerabilities were perceived in the victim. It is the abuser who doles out consequences when the victim tries to leave. If someone has a gun to your head, it is up to you to decide how you respond to that situation, but you are not responsible for whether the other person chose to put the gun to your head or succeeded in pulling the trigger. As someone who has worked in a job where there was a very real danger that someone could pull a gun on me, I got safety training from the police that it is better to give the person what they want than to try to fight back because fighting greatly increased the likelihood that I would be shot and being shot greatly increased the likelihood that I would die. (BTW, staying calm is a far better course of action than crying because it allows you to get a good look at the person with the gun so you can describe that person to the police later, which increases that likelihood that the person will be caught.) I don't write this stuff for the sake of people who are safe. I write it because it is incredibly unlikely that every single person these forums is safe. People who are not safe are not going to find ways to be safe by examining their choices because they have been told by their abusers and the unintentional implications of others that their choices are wrong, even when their choices were right. People who are not safe find ways to be safe when they stop believing that everything they do is wrong and start realizing that the things their abusers do are wrong. I made my point, clarified it twice, and am now done. It's the three post rule I've had in effect since 1997 and it works when I follow it. Blast away, ignore away, whatever. See you in another thread with talk didgeridoos and moonstones. I've been abused. It's a touchy subject. How 'bout we not talk about this here, huh? This is about Mika's column, which is about online dating and such, not abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 This implies that the victim is to blame for abdicating responsibility. No it does not. I am not reading the rest of your post nor continuing this discussion where you insist on painting me and others as victim blamers. You stated 12 hours ago that you were going to drop this because it was inappropriate to discuss here, so please do so now. This is about Mika's column, which is about online dating and such, not abuse. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzie Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 This is about Mika's column, which is about online dating and such, not abuse. I don't mind changing the topic now and then for fun but I don't feel like getting involved in a therapy session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trix the Mubbin Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I don't mind changing the topic now and then for fun but I don't feel like getting involved in a therapy session. Yeah I doubt ANYONE does... It's not what we're here for anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soaring Simpson Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 His best yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzie Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 His best yet ..and I hope it's not his last. Do we know if he will keep writing this blog for a while? ( I know there was no info on this in January but maybe there has been some update since then...? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soaring Simpson Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 ..and I hope it's not his last. Do we know if he will keep writing this blog for a while? ( I know there was no info on this in January but maybe there has been some update since then...? ) Did someone say it might be? It had better not, he's just getting warmed up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ce_mika Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 dunno if someone said it yet, no time to read through all those pages... but apart from the fact that i really like the column and the topic he chose, i must say it makes me a bit angry that he puts this label "bitch" on the brunette, just because of that quick moment he observed. there can be a thousand reasons for her reacting like that - and mika of all people should know what it can do if you judge a person too quickly. ok, i guess this behaviour is just human, but it's one thing if you think it to yourself, maybe say it to a good friend, but it's another thing if you write it in a magazine column. even though we'll never know who that brunette is, it is not a nice thing to do. but maybe that's just me. I agree with you I had the same feeling...I dunno why he used that word..specially when I think the brunette's attitude was kinda 'polite', according to what Mika says...he said that she answered that guy saying she prefered reality, as a way of saying she didn't fancy him, so I don't see her 'b****' attitude.... if she was more direct, maybe it'd hurt that guy....and if she didn't say anything, why give him expectations about a possible relationship if she didn't like the guy.... we know in any social network, we try to show the best or 'more interesting' about ourselves, but reality is always the best way to know a person deeply, specially if you want a relationship Just my opinion, anyway, I loved this column!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcdeb Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 ..and I hope it's not his last. Do we know if he will keep writing this blog for a while? ( I know there was no info on this in January but maybe there has been some update since then...? ) I haven't seen anything anywhere that said this would be the last... or that he'll write again next month, for that matter I wonder if they wouldn't state that it was the final column when they ran it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet.pixie Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I haven't seen anything anywhere that said this would be the last... or thathe'll write again next month, for that matter I wonder if they wouldn't state that it was the final column when they ran it? I think HE would probably state it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bopsterjazz Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I think HE would probably state it... probably on twitter. . . and in a very excited manner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etoile2roses Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 dunno if someone said it yet, no time to read through all those pages... but apart from the fact that i really like the column and the topic he chose, i must say it makes me a bit angry that he puts this label "bitch" on the brunette, just because of that quick moment he observed. there can be a thousand reasons for her reacting like that - and mika of all people should know what it can do if you judge a person too quickly. ok, i guess this behaviour is just human, but it's one thing if you think it to yourself, maybe say it to a good friend, but it's another thing if you write it in a magazine column. even though we'll never know who that brunette is, it is not a nice thing to do. but maybe that's just me. I am so totally agree with you on that, I already expressed myself on this subject in the first line with the Nezza traduction and resume of this article, but reading the word "bitch" for the "brunette" in the original version is something that I really don't get from him in this article apart from that, i find his thoughts about the whole online dating thing really interesting. that experience he made with the myspace person... he definitely has a point there. i've started online dating about 12 years ago, first in chatrooms, then on friendship- and dating-sites (never dated anyone from myspace/facebook though...) - and sometimes, especially if the guy lived in another town, we wrote so many personal e-mails and chat-messages that it already felt like a relationship although we hadn't even met in person. it really accelerated things, and when we finally did meet in person, we both weren't disappointed, because we knew we had so much in common. at first. but then you get to know each other in RL, and realize it doesn't work. on the other hand, i've also made this experience in RL, completely without the internet. the concept of "love at first sight". you immediately have feelings for someone, and because your feelings are so strong, you think you know this person, and if they also tell you that they have feelings for you, you think that their feelings must be as strong as yours. but i think it's very, very rare, that 2 people immediately fall for each other in the same way, and that it stays that way if they get to know each other. but i guess it's very common amongst (mainly female) teenagers to feel so strongly for someone else, especially if they do get a certain feedback from them. it doesn't have to be completely one-sided, but if your feelings are a lot stronger than the other one's, you still have a problem. i've learnt from my mistakes, and want to get to know someone now before i start a relationship. personally, not online. but the internet is still a good place for the first contact, it's easier there to get in contact than it is in RL. So true also what you said really "speak" to me, you express it very well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertina Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 I haven't seen anything anywhere that said this would be the last... or thathe'll write again next month, for that matter I wonder if they wouldn't state that it was the final column when they ran it? it was just speculation springing from the Italian thread, 'cause XL repubblica launched a poll asking for readers' preferences about a new columnist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucrezia Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 it was just speculation springing from the Italian thread, 'cause XL repubblica launched a poll asking for readers' preferences about a new columnist in fact Carmen Consoli is no longer a columnist Mika is safe!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertina Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 in fact Carmen Consoli is no longer a columnist Mika is safe!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriszti Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 February one:thumb_yello: YAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn Mastin Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 it was just speculation springing from the Italian thread, 'cause XL repubblica launched a poll asking for readers' preferences about a new columnist It would be brilliant if he did continue. I think he's done a really good thing as all of his columns make people think, and he's never afraid to say what HE thinks. He's a fine columnist. I haven't necessarily expected him to continue, because with other things to do it might be added pressure for him to do the monthy column, but if he's okay with it, I'd love him to carry on giving us these subjects for discussion and debate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sariflor Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I agree with you I had the same feeling...I dunno why he used that word..specially when I think the brunette's attitude was kinda 'polite', according to what Mika says...he said that she answered that guy saying she prefered reality, as a way of saying she didn't fancy him, so I don't see her 'b****' attitude.... if she was more direct, maybe it'd hurt that guy....and if she didn't say anything, why give him expectations about a possible relationship if she didn't like the guy.... we know in any social network, we try to show the best or 'more interesting' about ourselves, but reality is always the best way to know a person deeply, specially if you want a relationship I am so totally agree with you on that, I already expressed myself on this subject in the first line with the Nezza traduction and resume of this article, but reading the word "bitch" for the "brunette" in the original version is something that I really don't get from him in this article The way I see it, the girl was not being polite with the boy. The response she gave him of 'preferring reality' sounds very condescending and stuck up. If someone said that to me, I would definitely take it as if they had a chip on their shoulder and were trying to ridiculise me. So I guess that Mika tookd it in the same way, hence his 'bitch' comment. Personally, I love how frank and candid he was about his feelings and reactions to this. I found this column very 'real' and refreshing for this reason. I want him to write what he thinks and how he thinks it. I am a very direct person myself (although I don't like hurting people's feelings gratuitously) and hence I appreciate the fact that he's writing it as he feels it. I would have reacted in exactly the same way as he did if I had witnessed that exchange, and I might have even had a little go at the girl myself telling ther that if she wasn't interested in the guy that was ok, but there was no need to be horrible to him I'm sorry but her response IMO did carry a lot of negative weight and would have totally annoyed me if I had been there. Also, let's not forget that Mika was the one seeing their exchange, and when he categorised her as bitch he must have also been noticing other things like voice tone, body language, etc... I doubt that he would say that she seemed like a bitch unless she had actually given off a pretty strong vibe And at the end of the day, the word bitch is not that harsh anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn Mastin Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 The way I see it, the girl was not being polite with the boy. The response she gave him of 'preferring reality' sounds very condescending and stuck up. If someone said that to me, I would definitely take it as if they had a chip on their shoulder and were trying to ridiculise me. So I guess that Mika tookd it in the same way, hence his 'bitch' comment. Personally, I love how frank and candid he was about his feelings and reactions to this. I found this column very 'real' and refreshing for this reason. I want him to write what he thinks and how he thinks it. I am a very direct person myself (although I don't like hurting people's feelings gratuitously) and hence I appreciate the fact that he's writing it as he feels it. I would have reacted in exactly the same way as he did if I had witnessed that exchange, and I might have even had a little go at the girl myself telling ther that if she wasn't interested in the guy that was ok, but there was no need to be horrible to him I'm sorry but her response IMO did carry a lot of negative weight and would have totally annoyed me if I had been there. Also, let's not forget that Mika was the one seeing their exchange, and when he categorised her as bitch he must have also been noticing other things like voice tone, body language, etc... I doubt that he would say that she seemed like a bitch unless she had actually given off a pretty strong vibe And at the end of the day, the word bitch is not that harsh anyway. I agree. The word "Bitch" isn't the insult it used to be, and when Mika heard the exchange she might have had a snappy tone to her voice. It's not always what someone says, it's the way they say it that can be hurtful. The only thing that I can't understand about the boy and girl in the coffe shop queue, is, I can't understand why the conversation didn't go something like this. Boy- Hi there gorgeous, are you on facebook? Girl- No, I prefer reali.... Oh God,is that Mika over there? Boy- Oh God, it is...!! Oh never mind you, Bitch, I've just seen Mika in person and he's way hotter than I am! I need a new image! Girl- I agree with you, you looser, but you'll never look like Mika. Hey Mika! Are you still on facebook!!!? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcdeb Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 The only thing that I can't understand about the boy and girl in the coffe shop queue, is, I can't understand why the conversation didn't go something like this. Boy- Hi there gorgeous, are you on facebook? Girl- No, I prefer reali.... Oh God,is that Mika over there? Boy- Oh God, it is...!! Oh never mind you, Bitch, I've just seen Mika in person and he's way hotter than I am! I need a new image! Girl- I agree with you, you looser, but you'll never look like Mika. Hey Mika! Are you still on facebook!!!? . Love it, Marilyn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamy_Queen Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I agree. The word "Bitch" isn't the insult it used to be, and when Mika heard the exchange she might have had a snappy tone to her voice. It's not always what someone says, it's the way they say it that can be hurtful.The only thing that I can't understand about the boy and girl in the coffe shop queue, is, I can't understand why the conversation didn't go something like this. Boy- Hi there gorgeous, are you on facebook? Girl- No, I prefer reali.... Oh God,is that Mika over there? Boy- Oh God, it is...!! Oh never mind you, Bitch, I've just seen Mika in person and he's way hotter than I am! I need a new image! Girl- I agree with you, you looser, but you'll never look like Mika. Hey Mika! Are you still on facebook!!!? . :roftl: you deserve a medal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts