The Gay Thread

[Christine]

I don't really understand why people question the "label-less" thing. Maybe because I relate? But also, I guess I feel that, with something as personal as sexuality, I just accept what people say they are? I mean, if he changes his mind about being label-less (or about wanting to be seen as label-less) then that's fine, but until that day, I feel like I'd be disrespectful to question it.

 

I'd also like to hear/read him actually say something, rather than a twice-translated tabloid article, before I accept something as fact.

 

You've just answered the question for me. IMO Mika has never been clear about "what he says he is" (to paraphrase you here). His language has been vague, he has made statements via written interviews that were edited, double translated, etc.

 

When he has discussed labels, there have been a couple of times where he appears to be talking about his sexuality being indefinable, but in 2007 and again very recently he appears to be talking about not wanting his sexual orientation to define him as an artist.

 

This is his latest talk of labels and IMO it has nothing to do with his sexual orientation, but with the fears he has had about how labelling could have distracted people from his talent and his work and fears about his privacy being invaded.

 

Interviewer: A few times in the past the press have asked you about your sexuality and you said you didn't believe in labels. Did that have anything to do with being unhappy? Do you feel that now that you're happy you...?

 

Mika: Well that's actually a really good way to put it. I mean I have this really kind of strong opinion about when you have, when there's a young artist that the press are chasing. Especially the sort of hardcore press, chasing about labels or getting someone to come out or something like that. And really it has to be... each individual is completely different. It's about your terms, it's about being comfortable in yourself, it's about blooming. And then once you're really happy, isn't that when you want to make those decisions about being more open in your private life? I certainly am much more happy and I feel like I've afford myself a lot of privacy and a lot of discretion over the past 5 years of my life. I guess now, much more than ever before, I'm in a far more comfortable place to be a little bit more open about my private life. I write about it now in my songs. The album's called The Origin of Love and The Origin of Love as a song, it deals with a lot of my perspective on love, on joy, on sexuality, on the politics of sexuality, on even my relationship growing up in a Roman Catholic household. So yeah, I think that that is a much healthier way to approach the topic of sexuality when it comes to an artist. Deal with it when someone's happy.

 

If Mika has a conviction that he doesn't want to be labelled because he truly believes his sexuality is of a nature that one cannot label, then how could this change based on whether he is happy or unhappy? How could it change based on whether he is comfortable about discussing his private life or not? I can't help but think his aversion to labels is not necessarily due to how he defines (or refuses to define) his sexuality himself, but due to other reasons.

 

Of course if anyone in this thread tells me they feel a certain way about their sexuality I am not going to question it. But I have never had a discussion with Mika about his sexuality, just like I have never had a discussion with him about most of the things we talk about on MFC. We get much of our information through heavily filtered media sources, so I will question it, just like I question a lot of things.

 

I find it interesting that a few people have said in the Danish interview thread they find it hard to believe the story is true because they can't imagine Mika hiding a 5-year relationship from "us". But he neither hides nor reveals much of what we know to "us". He is speaking to or through media and just that fact alone is going to lead to some self-censorship and being vague or seemingly contradictory at times, etc.

 

I don't think Mika would ever tell an outright lie about his sexuality. I think he was evasive right from day one so he could avoid ever telling a lie. But this talk of labels is too vague and open to interpretation for me to accept it as his declaration of "who he is". I can understand why other people accept it though especially since you relate to his circumstances a lot better than I do. I am a straight woman who grew up in an era where everyone was straight or pretending to be straight so what do I know??

 

Of course it is not my place at all to judge what Mika thinks about sexuality or labels in any case, but Mika is putting it out there in public so people are going to think about it/talk about it/form opinions.

 

But also, in the way that straight people don't have to announce that they're straight, people of other sexualities shouldn't have to announce it either. Or at least in my ideal world where everyone gets along. I'm hoping one day that dream comes true.

 

I think that's exactly why people who are in the public eye in this era are being called on to announce it. The gay rights movement has begun but we're still far from the "ideal world" where everyone is as free as straight people to be and say whatever they want without repercussions.

 

Straight people do not make formal statements to tell everyone they are straight but they do it in more subtle ways every day by not minding their language when using pronouns, etc. I'm sure you won't find 20 threads on Adele's fan club wondering whether she is gay or straight. She's already told everyone about her relationships with men in no uncertain terms.

 

As long as kids are still being bullied and taking their lives then people like Anderson Cooper are going to feel the pressure to make public and unequivocal statements about their sexual orientation. If he and others like him do not pave the way we will never live in the "ideal world". Every human rights movement has required people to stand up and make it difficult for society to maintain the status quo. It's the only way to force change.

[RainbowGirl]

If Mika has a conviction that he doesn't want to be labelled because he truly believes his sexuality is of a nature that one cannot label, then how could this change based on whether he is happy or unhappy? How could it change based on whether he is comfortable about discussing his private life or not? I can't help but think his aversion to labels is not necessarily due to how he defines (or refuses to define) his sexuality himself, but due to other reasons.

 

oh, oh, OH!!! I totally understand you now!

[nas]

If Mika has a conviction that he doesn't want to be labelled because he truly believes his sexuality is of a nature that one cannot label, then how could this change based on whether he is happy or unhappy? How could it change based on whether he is comfortable about discussing his private life or not? I can't help but think his aversion to labels is not necessarily due to how he defines (or refuses to define) his sexuality himself, but due to other reasons.

 

this is a very interesting way of analysing it - i find i absolutely agree with you! in mika's case i can absolutely see how having a 'label' could impede his artistic ambitions/invade private life...but don't think he thinks his sexuality is label-less - u did a great job of explaining why you think so christine!

 

 

 

 

I think that's exactly why people who are in the public eye in this era are being called on to announce it. The gay rights movement has begun but we're still far from the "ideal world" where everyone is as free as straight people to be and say whatever they want without repercussions.

 

Straight people do not make formal statements to tell everyone they are straight but they do it in more subtle ways every day by not minding their language when using pronouns, etc. I'm sure you won't find 20 threads on Adele's fan club wondering whether she is gay or straight. She's already told everyone about her relationships with men in no uncertain terms.

 

As long as kids are still being bullied and taking their lives then people like Anderson Cooper are going to feel the pressure to make public and unequivocal statements about their sexual orientation. If he and others like him do not pave the way we will never live in the "ideal world". Every human rights movement has required people to stand up and make it difficult for society to maintain the status quo. It's the only way to force change.

 

i really wanted to bold the whole thing but restrained myself

and that's why 'coming out' for now remains SO IMPORTANT....:thumb_yello:

[Poisonyoulove]

 

 

If Mika has a conviction that he doesn't want to be labelled because he truly believes his sexuality is of a nature that one cannot label, then how could this change based on whether he is happy or unhappy? How could it change based on whether he is comfortable about discussing his private life or not? I can't help but think his aversion to labels is not necessarily due to how he defines (or refuses to define) his sexuality himself, but due to other reasons.

 

I guess what I don't understand is why saying he's open to any gender is less of a label than just saying he's gay. Homophobes would still dislike him, and in addition you get resentment from some in the gay community. I've heard people who seem to think that bisexuality doesn't actually exist, people are just lying to themselves. But I can see how someone who just doesn't want to reveal something so personal would be all vague like that . . .

In fact, when he said that in the interview, about being more happy and comfortable, I thought for sure he was about to say something similar to what was in that translated article. But then he didn't.

[flyingkites]

Wow, it's a relief to spill my guts and have people understand where I'm coming from! Thanks, RainbowGirl and flyingkites!

Usually I'm more comfortable joking around about my sexuality (certain elements of it, anyway), I don't often get all serious like this.

 

You make good points, you should get serious more often. I'm glad you feel comfortable enough to share your thoughts with us.

 

I guess what I don't understand is why saying he's open to any gender is less of a label than just saying he's gay. Homophobes would still dislike him, and in addition you get resentment from some in the gay community. I've heard people who seem to think that bisexuality doesn't actually exist, people are just lying to themselves. But I can see how someone who just doesn't want to reveal something so personal would be all vague like that . . .

In fact, when he said that in the interview, about being more happy and comfortable, I thought for sure he was about to say something similar to what was in that translated article. But then he didn't.

 

This is what ticks me off. In addition to what you already mentioned about hearing people say bisexuality doesn't exist some people in the gay community seem to shun bisexuals. They seem to think it's some sort of a trendy thing and a phase and they come up with terms like LUG (Lesbian Until Graduation). I'm not saying this is very common or straight people wouldn't say the same stuff but sometimes I feel like gay people are very mean towards others who identify themselves only as an ambiguous part of the LGBT community rather than "100% gay".

 

Surely enough, these days more people say they're bisexual, label-less, gay etc. but I don't understand why this would be a trend of some sort. The way I see it is that it's because it's more acceptable nowadays than it used to be.

 

I also think it's a completely different thing to "speculate" about someone's sexuality than to flat out question it. I've heard people question my sexual identity behind my back and I found it kind of amusing. However, if someone walked up to me saying "I think you're making this bisexuality thing up, you have a boyfriend, I bet you're straight" I'd be offended. I think I'm the one who knows my feelings towards others the best - who are other people to say one is or isn't gay/straight/bi/whatever?

 

Please do note that I'm only throwing in my two cents and mean to offend no one. Like many others I feel very passionate about this subject but I'm afraid I can't express myself clearly as I'm not a native English speaker (oldest trick in the book, I know ).

[Christine]

I guess what I don't understand is why saying he's open to any gender is less of a label than just saying he's gay. Homophobes would still dislike him, and in addition you get resentment from some in the gay community.

 

I don't understand it either. I never said it was an effective strategy.

 

Anyway we'll see. I suspect he's going to be more clear about this eventually. Although Mika is coy and misleading about the most irrelevant things so who knows.

 

In fact, when he said that in the interview, about being more happy and comfortable, I thought for sure he was about to say something similar to what was in that translated article. But then he didn't.

 

Yes me too. I guess he just wasn't prepared. But I expected it would happen fairly soon afterwards.

 

In addition to what you already mentioned about hearing people say bisexuality doesn't exist some people in the gay community seem to shun bisexuals.

 

I know a few gay men who don't believe in bisexuality (even some who have slept with women) and they think Mika is gay, end of story. When homosexuals have been pressured into heterosexual relationships since the dawn of time because of societal expectations, family expectations, fears about their career, denial, confusion, religious beliefs, etc...I think I can understand why gay men view bisexuality as more of the same and not something that comes from genuinely being open to anyone regardless of gender.

 

I understand bisexuality on an intellectual level because I've heard it from so many people and I don't think they are liars or delusional so I have to accept it as fact. But it is extremely difficult for me to relate to it. Gender is a very fundamental basis for how I relate to people and it would be impossible for me to remove gender from the process of falling in love.

 

But of course you are right that people shouldn't be telling you about your sexuality. It's rude and none of their f-ing business.

[Lilasko]

I guess what I don't understand is why saying he's open to any gender is less of a label than just saying he's gay. Homophobes would still dislike him, and in addition you get resentment from some in the gay community. I've heard people who seem to think that bisexuality doesn't actually exist, people are just lying to themselves. But I can see how someone who just doesn't want to reveal something so personal would be all vague like that . . .

In fact, when he said that in the interview, about being more happy and comfortable, I thought for sure he was about to say something similar to what was in that translated article. But then he didn't.

 

Maybe because he doesn't want to be put into a pigeonhole, or because it really is no ones business and have no impact whatsoever on his music.

 

OH, I'm passionate about it to (being someone who is bisexual), I guess.. Hmm, how do I put it..

I know that right now, it is good to stand there and announce your sexuality when you're not straight. It's wonderful, it really is. But also, in the way that straight people don't have to announce that they're straight, people of other sexualities shouldn't have to announce it either. Or at least in my ideal world where everyone gets along. I'm hoping one day that dream comes true. Hope I didn't offend anyone, I know I wasn't very clear on what I was saying

 

Agree with you, I'm waiting for the day when people don't have to come out of the closet. But there are also some screwy things the other way around, you can't make a straight thread or a straight parade to celebrate straightness as the society look like today. Which is kind of weird, but I guess the world I want to live in won't exist during mu lifetime...

[Christine]

Maybe because he doesn't want to be put into a pigeonhole, or because it really is no ones business and have no impact whatsoever on his music.

 

That was the message that he gave for years. It wasn't until the you-can-call-me-bisexual-if-you-must interview that there was any indication that he thought labels didn't apply to his sexuality.

[Lilasko]

That was the message that he gave for years. It wasn't until the you-can-call-me-bisexual-if-you-must interview that there was any indication that he thought labels didn't apply to his sexuality.

 

Just realized I misread Poisonyoulove's post, my fault. My comment have nothing to do what she wrote, sorry.

 

But I have to say that I agree with Mika labels of any kind are wrong and somewhat misleading. We are individuals nothing more nothing less.

[flyingkites]

But I have to say that I agree with Mika labels of any kind are wrong and somewhat misleading. We are individuals nothing more nothing less.

 

Some people may find labels comforting though. It's a part of human nature to try and organize things - like wildlife, for example. Mammals don't think they have certain features that set them apart from the rest but pointing out these differences and putting a label on them makes it easier for us to understand. It makes sense in the middle of chaos and also gives comfort to those who are just coming out: "I'm not the only one who feels like this, there are others who understand me."

 

I do agree with you that we are all individuals and practically no one is 100% something - not when it comes to sexuality or politics, for example - so in that sense labels can be somewhat misleading. But as long as you're the one putting that label on yourself instead of other people doing it for you I think they are completely acceptable.

[astor]

Maybe because he doesn't want to be put into a pigeonhole, or because it really is no ones business and have no impact whatsoever on his music.

 

 

 

Agree with you, I'm waiting for the day when people don't have to come out of the closet. But there are also some screwy things the other way around, you can't make a straight thread or a straight parade to celebrate straightness as the society look like today. Which is kind of weird, but I guess the world I want to live in won't exist during mu lifetime...

 

Everyday is straight day.

I think the LGBT community deserve these 'perks' () until they are considered equal with straight people.

[Lilasko]

Everyday is straight day.

I think the LGBT community deserve these 'perks' () until they are considered equal with straight people.

 

Yeah, maybe it is and I think they deserve it too. Just that I find it kind of strange that you can't, but that's maybe because I want a world where everyone is equal there we don't need to have certain days or parades etc to announce people of the reality, but that's not the case today.

 

Some people may find labels comforting though. It's a part of human nature to try and organize things - like wildlife, for example. Mammals don't think they have certain features that set them apart from the rest but pointing out these differences and putting a label on them makes it easier for us to understand. It makes sense in the middle of chaos and also gives comfort to those who are just coming out: "I'm not the only one who feels like this, there are others who understand me."

 

I do agree with you that we are all individuals and practically no one is 100% something - not when it comes to sexuality or politics, for example - so in that sense labels can be somewhat misleading. But as long as you're the one putting that label on yourself instead of other people doing it for you I think they are completely acceptable.

 

I agree with you, but I can't help myself that I sometime think of how the world would look like if we didn't have labels. It would be completely different, a world I think many of us, at least I am longing for. But that's an Utopia. Because as you said it's not in human nature to do that, we are gregarious animals, we need to feel solidarity and we do that with labels and putting each other in pigeon holes. It also gives us some kind of control when we do that, agree with you, but I can't help myself that I sometime think of how the world would look like if we didn't have labels. It would be completely different, a world I think many of us, at least I am longing for. But that's an Utopia. Because as you said it's not in human nature to do that, we are gregarious animals, we need to feel solidarity and we do that with labels and putting each other in pigeon holes. It also gives us some kind of control when we do that, to

always know how the other one will act because it's consider to do that. And I think labels will somewhat affect the people who are within them, you become what you're supposed to be or what the people around you think you are. Labels are a great way to control people to rule people.

[Lilasko]

Just one question, why did people from the beginning start to discuss Mika's sexuality and consider the idea that he might be gay?

[SjoerdvWijk]

Just one question, why did people from the beginning start to discuss Mika's sexuality and consider the idea that he might be gay?

 

Hi there!

 

Here in the Netherlands mainly because of his colourful artwork and clothes, his happy music style and his high voice in songs.

 

Here is an example of how they thought about him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0tUcW6SI1Y

[Lilasko]

Hi there!

 

Here in the Netherlands mainly because of his colourful artwork and clothes, his happy music style and his high voice in songs.

 

Here is an example of how they thought about him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0tUcW6SI1Y

 

Just what I thought, and that define everything that are wrong with labels and why Mika don't want to say if he's gay or not. Because if he did it would be another win for everyone who thinks they know how gay people are and act.

 

Seriously this is so stupid, so I better shut up.

[Christine]

But I have to say that I agree with Mika labels of any kind are wrong and somewhat misleading. We are individuals nothing more nothing less.

 

I don't recall Mika saying that labels of any kind are wrong. He has no problem labelling himself as Lebanese. And he's not just stating a simple fact. His ethnicity is varied and his citizenship is not Lebanese at all, but he obviously wants to be identified as Lebanese because he refers to himself that way constantly.

[basicamenteyo]

Hi there!

 

Here in the Netherlands mainly because of his colourful artwork and clothes, his happy music style and his high voice in songs.

 

Here is an example of how they thought about him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0tUcW6SI1Y

 

And maybe also cause he uses to hang out with gays? Going to gay pubs, gay parties and stuff?

[Lilasko]

I don't recall Mika saying that labels of any kind are wrong. He has no problem labelling himself as Lebanese. And he's not just stating a simple fact. His ethnicity is varied and his citizenship is not Lebanese at all, but he obviously wants to be identified as Lebanese because he refers to himself that way constantly.

 

I haven't heard him say that either, it's just the way I look at labels. Which makes me a hypocrite 'cause I myself use labels to describe me and the world around me... Guess I should stop discuss things in English or at least thing I don't know anything about

[Poisonyoulove]

They seem to think it's some sort of a trendy thing and a phase and they come up with terms like LUG (Lesbian Until Graduation).

 

I get the impression a lot of people do experiment in college. I think it's good to experiment, if one is curious. It's too bad that can make people cast doubt on others though. This totally reminded me of a song by Voltaire's side-band The Oddz, which I hadn't listened to in years, One Semester Lesbian.

 

Yes me too. I guess he just wasn't prepared. But I expected it would happen fairly soon afterwards.

 

I hope it does happen soon, in English so there's no doubt. It just seemed odd that he was suddenly being so specific! And I thought I remembered him saying things like that he was in love in one interview and then in another that he didn't have time for relationships . . . so it was the "5 year" part that struck me as surprising. But I guess in the other interviews he was just giving a vague answer that he thought was expected? I kind of had the impression that he maybe . . . hadn't had a five year relationship. Not that I thought he was shallow, just that maybe he was difficult? Not that I gave it much though, to be honest. (Until now. )

[Christine]

I haven't heard him say that either, it's just the way I look at labels. Which makes me a hypocrite 'cause I myself use labels to describe me and the world around me... Guess I should stop discuss things in English or at least thing I don't know anything about

 

Ha, your English is great. And there's nothing wrong with hoping for an ideal world even if you're not living up to your own ideal. Sometimes you just have to be pragmatic and work within the existing system in order to be understood or to get things done, etc.

 

I hope it does happen soon, in English so there's no doubt. It just seemed odd that he was suddenly being so specific! And I thought I remembered him saying things like that he was in love in one interview and then in another that he didn't have time for relationships . . . so it was the "5 year" part that struck me as surprising. But I guess in the other interviews he was just giving a vague answer that he thought was expected? I kind of had the impression that he maybe . . . hadn't had a five year relationship. Not that I thought he was shallow, just that maybe he was difficult? Not that I gave it much though, to be honest. (Until now. )

 

I am not surprised at all because, as I said, I don't really take anything he says in interviews at face value. In 2009 he was contradicting himself within the space of a week about his relationships and breakups so I just dismissed it. I discovered very early on that Mika is not a reliable source of information so if you are going to draw conclusions about anything you're going to have to find corroborating evidence elsewhere.

[flyingkites]

I agree with you, but I can't help myself that I sometime think of how the world would look like if we didn't have labels. It would be completely different, a world I think many of us, at least I am longing for. But that's an Utopia.

 

Of course, that would be the ideal case and I can completely relate to what you're saying but as you said, it's a utopia and will probably never happen. Until we can live like that I think it's just easier to accept the fact that people are going to use labels of all sorts, no matter what - all we, as individuals, can do is raise awareness of different minorities and not support actions or thoughts that only reinforce stereotypes.

 

I get the impression a lot of people do experiment in college. I think it's good to experiment, if one is curious. It's too bad that can make people cast doubt on others though. This totally reminded me of a song by Voltaire's side-band The Oddz, which I hadn't listened to in years, One Semester Lesbian.

 

Oh don't get me wrong, I have nothing against experimenting or even being a "one semester lesbian" ( ) - who am I to judge who others sleep with. The problem I have is what you already mentioned, some people think that because for some being bisexual or experimenting is a phase it must be like that to others, too. Like Christine said, doubting someone else's sexual orientation is incredibly rude to me. It only shows that you're trying to connect the dots by making assumptions and that you believe in those stupid, old-fashioned stereotypes.

[saint_tails_09]

 

I know a few gay men who don't believe in bisexuality (even some who have slept with women) and they think Mika is gay, end of story. When homosexuals have been pressured into heterosexual relationships since the dawn of time because of societal expectations, family expectations, fears about their career, denial, confusion, religious beliefs, etc...I think I can understand why gay men view bisexuality as more of the same and not something that comes from genuinely being open to anyone regardless of gender.

 

I understand bisexuality on an intellectual level because I've heard it from so many people and I don't think they are liars or delusional so I have to accept it as fact. But it is extremely difficult for me to relate to it. Gender is a very fundamental basis for how I relate to people and it would be impossible for me to remove gender from the process of falling in love.

 

But of course you are right that people shouldn't be telling you about your sexuality. It's rude and none of their f-ing business.

 

Ya see though, for all bisexuals it's not that gender is being removed, it's just that you can love both, but in different ways. It's kind of hard to explain, but it's kind of like..

Well say you can love cats or dogs. Some people only love cats, and some people only love dogs. Well, some people love both cats and dogs, but each in separate ways, and then there are some people who just loved domestic house animals.

Pansexuality is generally labeled under bisexuality (I guess), but that would be the whole "removing gender" type thing. I can't speak for it though, I consider myself bisexual. I see gender, I could fall in love with either, but it is distinct.

Again, hard to explain, but I've tried

[RainbowGirl]

Ya see though, for all bisexuals it's not that gender is being removed, it's just that you can love both, but in different ways. It's kind of hard to explain, but it's kind of like..

Well say you can love cats or dogs. Some people only love cats, and some people only love dogs. Well, some people love both cats and dogs, but each in separate ways, and then there are some people who just loved domestic house animals.

Pansexuality is generally labeled under bisexuality (I guess), but that would be the whole "removing gender" type thing. I can't speak for it though, I consider myself bisexual. I see gender, I could fall in love with either, but it is distinct.

Again, hard to explain, but I've tried

 

i could've replied to everything i read but that would take too long and i can't be bothered

 

but the bolded part stuck with me...

For straight and gay people i (assume, i wouldn't know) that there is a distinct attraction to the gender.

For bisexual people as, said above by saint_tails (i'm sorry i don't know your name ) i believe there would be a distinction of attraction for both men and women.

But i think for those who are label-less (and possibly those who are pansexual?) there is no distinction. There is no, i fancy them and them, there is I fancy her and him and him, and she's also nice, i fancy her.

 

do you see what i mean?

[saint_tails_09]

i could've replied to everything i read but that would take too long and i can't be bothered

 

but the bolded part stuck with me...

For straight and gay people i (assume, i wouldn't know) that there is a distinct attraction to the gender.

For bisexual people as, said above by saint_tails (i'm sorry i don't know your name ) i believe there would be a distinction of attraction for both men and women.

But i think for those who are label-less (and possibly those who are pansexual?) there is no distinction. There is no, i fancy them and them, there is I fancy her and him and him, and she's also nice, i fancy her.

 

do you see what i mean?

 

Yeah, with pansexual people there is no distinction (at least from what I understand.

And the name's Eileen

[Poisonyoulove]

Nobody has posted this here?

 

[YOUTUBE]ABtSHs_dG4U[/YOUTUBE]

 

I'm happy for him, truly.

 

But fandom's reaction is making me feel kind of bad, there's a vibe of "he's obviously 100% gay and anyone who believes that 'label-less' thing is a moron." So, I feel like, not only is my intelligence being insulted, but my sexuality is being slighted as well. I know I'm taking it too personal, but it's obviously a sensitive topic. And I know people aren't meaning to say that nobody could have that type of sexuality, but that's how it feels when I see it repeated over and over.