Mika's career choices discussion

[RayaBadran]

@Deb, I love how you expressed that! Totally what I also feel!

[Christine]

I don't mind discussions. They're fab. It's sometimes the underlying feeling that because I haven't been here all along, my opinions aren't as valid as others. And that's a pretty sad feeling to have, when all you want to do is enjoy sharing this little bit of your life that you have in common, in hopes of finding more in common, and building genuine friendships.

 

I don't think the fact that you or anyone else is a newbie is a factor in whether your opinion is valid or not. My only objection in these discussions is when people tell me or anyone else what they should think or imply that they have no life or they are a bad fan, etc. for what they think.

[RayaBadran]

Those are not fans they are spammers from Pakistan, China, etc. so they are often active when mods are not online.

 

 

 

I think Coldplay is a very different case from Mika though because they have had a long, solid run. They were critically acclaimed for many years and they have surely gained many fans over that time who will buy their music regardless. Even not so big fans who just think Coldplay is "good" because that's what everyone has been telling them for more than a decade.

 

Mika was a one-hit wonder in the UK. His critical acclaim only lasted a matter of months until there was a backlash. It is going to take more than making him visible to get people to buy his music. If people do not think he has credibility as a musician and do not think he is cool and do not relate to him they won't be interested unless the music is so good it speaks for itself.

 

Sure that's true! Mika needs to do a song that's going to be super awesome to come back strong. But I think he could have gotten himself a status (not literally as good music, because if I remember at the time, he had hardcore haters and that it would probably last if it continued that way now) but he would have been maybe seen by a general public somehow... I don't know I have this idea that he hasn't invested enough on "mediatizing" his album like all the UK artists have been doing.

[Kezza]

I don't think the fact that you or anyone else is a newbie is a factor in whether your opinion is valid or not. My only objection in these discussions is when people tell me or anyone else what they should think or imply that they have no life or they are a bad fan, etc. for what they think.

 

I hope that you don't think I feel that way about you, Christine. I most certainly do not, and am going on the record now to say that.

[Christine]

I don't know I have this idea that he hasn't invested enough on "mediatizing" his album like all the UK artists have been doing.

 

Yes I totally agree. But it's become a catch-22 at this point. He can't promote himself because he can't sell records and he can't sell records because he can't promote himself. I suppose he could shell out his own money for TV ads or whatever but he is at a disadvantage compared to Coldplay. They are just trying to stay relevant but Mika's in a position where he has to "come back" because even his early fans think he disappeared years ago. It's an uphill battle.

 

I feel like Mika has no interest in attempting a comeback in the UK. Twitter is free and easy and he doesn't even utilize that. I have muted him because half his tweets aren't in English and the majority of them are about things that are of no interest to people in the English speaking world and of no interest to music fans.

[Christine]

I hope that you don't think I feel that way about you, Christine. I most certainly do not, and am going on the record now to say that.

 

Well that's kind of you to say, but I have a thick skin.

 

Why I object to that kind of "argument" is because I think it's a way of trying to censor others. Like when Mika announced the first season of X Factor I was called a racist for saying the show sucked and Mika had too much talent to waste on a talent show in a small music market. I don't care if a stranger on the internet thinks I'm a racist but IMO that is nothing more than a dirty trick to try to shut down an opinion you don't agree with.

[Kezza]

Agreed.

 

That's beyond low and dirty.

[dcdeb]

 

I'm late to MFC, but not late to enjoying and appreciating him, and feel sometimes as if my new status here is still in its growing pains stage. I don't complain, because I love my new friends here, but sometimes I feel like I'm not taken as seriously because I'm a newb here. I know that will pass - again with the wait and see approach. I'm willing to grow at whatever speed I do here.

 

I don't mind discussions. They're fab. It's sometimes the underlying feeling that because I haven't been here all along, my opinions aren't as valid as others. And that's a pretty sad feeling to have, when all you want to do is enjoy sharing this little bit of your life that you have in common, in hopes of finding more in common, and building genuine friendships.

 

Well, I hope I haven't made you feel like your opinions are less worthy than others -- I don't think I have. I try not to do that with anyone.

 

And about the sometimes negative remarks -- to be honest, it's good for me to hear them sometimes, because they cause me to take another look at things, to see if I feel there's any truth in what's being said. For example, Christine and I don't always agree on everything all the time, but I always appreciate hearing what she has to say. I may be odd (well, I know I am!), but hearing an opposite view makes me take a harder look at what I think -- or what I think I think -- and helps me decide how I to defend my point of view. Sometimes it even helps me think in a new way, and that's always a good thing.

 

I don't think the fact that you or anyone else is a newbie is a factor in whether your opinion is valid or not. My only objection in these discussions is when people tell me or anyone else what they should think or imply that they have no life or they are a bad fan, etc. for what they think.

 

Exactly.

[Kezza]

Glad you both feel that way. I love this place, and the people who have gotten to know me better are exactly the type I love IRL. I'm looking forward to seeing them in Montreal, which I know isn't everyone's cuppa, but just the idea of traveling to a destination where I will be in the company of such nice people as I've come to meet here is enough of a joyful thing to me. I much prefer traveling somewhere I might actually know someone.

[Christine]

For example, Christine and I don't always agree on everything all the time, but I always appreciate hearing what she has to say.

 

Yes I was just thinking that...you should hear what I say to the "old" fans in private.

[dcdeb]

Dare I say it?

 

OK, I will.

 

Sam who?

 

He has the #1 single in the UK at the moment and it looks like he will bump Coldplay out of the #1 album spot in a few days.

 

Just ran across this, and since we were talking about him, thought I'd throw it in for anyone else who was wondering about him. I didn't realize he was 22! My son is 22 for crying out loud!

 

http://www.ok.co.uk/celebrity-news/sam-smith-opens-up-about-being-gay

 

Yes I totally agree. But it's become a catch-22 at this point. He can't promote himself because he can't sell records and he can't sell records because he can't promote himself.

 

Arrgh.

 

Yes I was just thinking that...you should hear what I say to the "old" fans in private.

 

My ears, my ears!

 

[mellody]

just something about the promotion and the songs: to be honest, i think if underwater had been thoroughly promoted when it was in the swatch ad, it would've become a hit in many countries - including the UK. but there was no promo at all for the song. at that time, i read many many comments on the web from people who didn't even know who mika was, and they wrote they absolutely loved the song. i don't know if it would've helped him in the long run, or if it just would've been another "one-hit-wonder", but i'm pretty sure it could've been a hit. so it's not about bad songs to me. not even about bad promo as such. bad choices, yes. celebrate was the wrong choice, all the promo that was done for it was for nothing, because the song was just too mainstream, it didn't have any profile, anything people could relate to. underwater, in the swatch ad, combined with the right promo, could've worked.

 

alternatively, i think it might be mika himself who needs a new "profile" for the promotion. people relate to a song, or to the artist - or ideally to both. i don't think it matters whether mika wears converse or louboutins, but the question is, what's his "image" as an artist? i'm not sure even he himself knows atm. at the beginning, it was being against the music industry, i think it's one reason why GK was such a huge hit. people were fed up with the music industry at that point, and mika expressed their feelings with this song. the public discussion about the music industry has faded, so if he went on with that (apart from the fact that no one would believe him after those talent shows ), it wouldn't help. he has to find something else.

 

when i heard OOL, i thought this would be a good thing to promote: critizism of the church for their old-fashioned views. it's a discussion that comes up in the media again and again. i think he might have gotten some fans by discussing this in interviews. and OOL would've been a better single than celebrate, too. (in fact, any song would've been a better choice! )

 

i'm looking forward to see what messages he comes up with in the songs on his next album. hopefully there's some potential that he can promote, a song that interviewers will be curious about. there's not much to ask about "i want the whole world to celebrate".

 

and i'm also curious about how he'll do the promotion, and where. hopefully not just in 2 countries. but i know the other record companies won't support him anymore - at least i know this for sure for germany, but guess it's the same in the UK and elsewhere. they won't promote him here, he has to take care of that himself. i hope he uses his casting show money to hire a good promotion company that will do what's necessary - and with the right songs.

 

but well, i'm an endless optimist... and used to travelling, so if he keeps concentrating on italy and france when his album comes out and he goes on tour again, luckily those 2 countries are not too far away from germany. although of course i'd prefer it differently.

[LeiRe]

It's been going on for years now, much before the TV shows: http://www.mikafanclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26170

 

Have a good read!

[Alireine]

 

alternatively, i think it might be mika himself who needs a new "profile" for the promotion. people relate to a song, or to the artist - or ideally to both. i don't think it matters whether mika wears converse or louboutins, but the question is, what's his "image" as an artist? i'm not sure even he himself knows atm. at the beginning, it was being against the music industry, i think it's one reason why GK was such a huge hit. people were fed up with the music industry at that point, and mika expressed their feelings with this song. the public discussion about the music industry has faded, so if he went on with that (apart from the fact that no one would believe him after those talent shows ), it wouldn't help. he has to find something else.

 

when i heard OOL, i thought this would be a good thing to promote: critizism of the church for their old-fashioned views. it's a discussion that comes up in the media again and again. i think he might have gotten some fans by discussing this in interviews. and OOL would've been a better single than celebrate, too. (in fact, any song would've been a better choice! )

 

i'm looking forward to see what messages he comes up with in the songs on his next album. hopefully there's some potential that he can promote, a song that interviewers will be curious about. there's not much to ask about "i want the whole world to celebrate".

 

 

Very interesting, thank you

[RAK1]

just something about the promotion and the songs: to be honest, i think if underwater had been thoroughly promoted when it was in the swatch ad, it would've become a hit in many countries - including the UK. but there was no promo at all for the song. at that time, i read many many comments on the web from people who didn't even know who mika was, and they wrote they absolutely loved the song. i don't know if it would've helped him in the long run, or if it just would've been another "one-hit-wonder", but i'm pretty sure it could've been a hit. so it's not about bad songs to me. not even about bad promo as such. bad choices, yes. celebrate was the wrong choice, all the promo that was done for it was for nothing, because the song was just too mainstream, it didn't have any profile, anything people could relate to. underwater, in the swatch ad, combined with the right promo, could've worked.

 

alternatively, i think it might be mika himself who needs a new "profile" for the promotion. people relate to a song, or to the artist - or ideally to both. i don't think it matters whether mika wears converse or louboutins, but the question is, what's his "image" as an artist? i'm not sure even he himself knows atm. at the beginning, it was being against the music industry, i think it's one reason why GK was such a huge hit. people were fed up with the music industry at that point, and mika expressed their feelings with this song. the public discussion about the music industry has faded, so if he went on with that (apart from the fact that no one would believe him after those talent shows ), it wouldn't help. he has to find something else.

 

when i heard OOL, i thought this would be a good thing to promote: critizism of the church for their old-fashioned views. it's a discussion that comes up in the media again and again. i think he might have gotten some fans by discussing this in interviews. and OOL would've been a better single than celebrate, too. (in fact, any song would've been a better choice! )

 

i'm looking forward to see what messages he comes up with in the songs on his next album. hopefully there's some potential that he can promote, a song that interviewers will be curious about. there's not much to ask about "i want the whole world to celebrate".

 

and i'm also curious about how he'll do the promotion, and where. hopefully not just in 2 countries. but i know the other record companies won't support him anymore - at least i know this for sure for germany, but guess it's the same in the UK and elsewhere. they won't promote him here, he has to take care of that himself. i hope he uses his casting show money to hire a good promotion company that will do what's necessary - and with the right songs.

 

but well, i'm an endless optimist... and used to travelling, so if he keeps concentrating on italy and france when his album comes out and he goes on tour again, luckily those 2 countries are not too far away from germany. although of course i'd prefer it differently.

 

Didn't he say a month or so ago someone from the record company in the UK had come over to France to listen to the new album, to give the go ahead for recording I assume.

So it looks like he still has the support of the record company here, I'm not sure how far along it goes though, if it will follow through to full promo.

[Alireine]

Didn't he say a month or so ago someone from the record company in the UK had come over to France to listen to the new album, to give the go ahead for recording I assume.

So it looks like he still has the support of the record company here, I'm not sure how far along it goes though, if it will follow through to full promo.

 

Wasn't it when he was in LA and that he said that people from the record company had listened to the songs? Anyway, it means he still has their support, as you said

[mellody]

Didn't he say a month or so ago someone from the record company in the UK had come over to France to listen to the new album, to give the go ahead for recording I assume.

So it looks like he still has the support of the record company here, I'm not sure how far along it goes though, if it will follow through to full promo.

 

yeah, i was talking about the promo. i guess they'll finance the recording and distribution of the album, probably because there's an existing contract. but i doubt they'll pay for any promo. tho we might not even notice who does the promo in the end, the label (who often work with external promo companies anyway) or another company.

what i don't know tho is how these things work internationally. in italy and france, ofc universal loves mika, he'll surely get all the support he needs from them. maybe it's them this time who pay for the recording? and maybe the others will wait and see how the album's doing there, before they decide anything? but that's just speculations, like i said, i don't know in what way the international record label offices work together.

[Marta.]

The debate is complex and very interesting especially for a beginner like me.

I try to give you another point of view, the view of who was not there... but now there is.

This is what I see, understand and think at this moment:

 

1. Mika is a true artist . And he is able to do many things well .

I can't see him compressed in the neverending mechanism album / promotion / tour / album / promotion / tour / . In this sense , I DO NOT see him suited to play the role of "international pop artist "

I don't care very much what was before, a little bit because I was not there, a little bit because I live in the present. The combination of favorable conditions that have led him to success are difficult to repeat and trying to reproduce the same scheme would be a suicide for me . The music industry has changed, Mika has changed. I don't see him jumping on stage like a madman all over the world up to 40 and 50 years old . Nor he seems willing to become a puppet, churning out albums. If he wants a long and challenging career, he must change course, look for a different audience, change his image (a difficult task for anyone who has a public image). His image is too closely tied , in my opinion , to the "commercial pop" , an idea of music that keep him in a box too small. And this condition, prevents him to comunicate to the public his wonderful world of art . A lot of people , distracted by a thousand things, do not get anything except for his festive image and catchy melodies . Too many people have never even caught a glimpse of his artistic depth . There is something that does not work. What I see now is a man who has a desire to change , to try, to do different things.

2 . In OOL there are many beautiful songs , some of theme are really wonderful . But there are too many wrong arrangements , a forced dance style , which does not fit at all in the style of Mika , I think much more elegant and refined. The first thing I thought listening to the album ( just a few months ago!) is that all those "disco sounds" had nothing to do with the Mika who I was experiencing. This guy has to make peace with himself and find the "right machine" to express what now, at 30 yers old, has to say.

3 . The promotion of OOL was a disaster , it ruined an album with a lot of potential and compromised the career of a talented artist. Whatever choice he takes away from that scheme , including making XF in Burkina Faso , it will be better than that strategy .

4 . Changing scheme often means also changing the starting point.

Much better than banging your head against the same wall.

Re-starting from a " comfort zone " , such as France or Italy , can give him a warm and thick blanket, able to help him in more hostile lands (professionally speaking ), such as England or America. Step by step you can go far...

 

For all these reasons, it seems to me that the choices of Mika, for now, are fairly consistent with a general strategy of chaniging and repositioning on the musical market. We will se.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Marta.

[mellody]

Hus image is too closely tied , in my opinion , to the "commercial pop" , an idea of music that keep him in a box too small. And this condition, prevents him to comunicate to the public his wonderful world of art .

 

that's an interesting point of view, and maybe it summarizes his current status in italy. in the beginning, he always said he didn't get accepted by the pop world, because his music was too unique. it had a message, and wasn't "just pop". i wouldn't say that the songs on tool are much more pop than those on licm, except celebrate, but he doesn't manage anymore to get across the message, like for example in ool - he hardly talked about that song in interviews. so yes, i guess his image has shifted towards pure pop, and this doesn't suit him, i agree with you there. he isn't so one-dimensional (hope that expression makes sense in english), and i mean that *within* his music, so he shouldn't sell himself like that. i don't mind projects like swatch etc., but casting shows support this pop image, in my opinion, and not his own creative image as a serious artist.

[Marta.]

... casting shows support this pop image, in my opinion, and not his own creative image as a serious artist.

 

Well, on this point i can not agree so much...i mean, talent shows are what they are...the difference is always how you can manage that kind of show...some judges seem so stupid in that role...but others are able to show their deep nature...the image that i receved from Mika was not so "pop"...he seemed to me a very "serious artist"...funny, full of joy, coloured...but very very serious, deep and prepared in all kind of music....these shows are very powerful (and dangerous ) if you're trying to change your image because they are seen by a huge amount of people...

[Marilyn Mastin]

OK, thanks, Marilyn. These spammers actually do join the MFC, so that's how they can open the threads. As Christine said, most of them tend in come online while we're asleep, but every time one of us moderators logs in that's the first thing we check for, so hopefully we're getting them all.

Thanks Deb, and the other mods.

[tiibet]

The debate is complex and very interesting especially for a beginner like me.

I try to give you another point of view, the view of who was not there... but now there is.

This is what I see, understand and think at this moment:

 

1. Mika is a true artist . And he is able to do many things well .

I can't see him compressed in the neverending mechanism album / promotion / tour / album / promotion / tour / . In this sense , I DO NOT see him suited to play the role of "international pop artist "

I don't care very much what was before, a little bit because I was not there, a little bit because I live in the present. The combination of favorable conditions that have led him to success are difficult to repeat and trying to reproduce the same scheme would be a suicide for me . The music industry has changed, Mika has changed. I don't see him jumping on stage like a madman all over the world up to 40 and 50 years old . Nor he seems willing to become a puppet, churning out albums. If he wants a long and challenging career, he must change course, look for a different audience, change his image (a difficult task for anyone who has a public image). Hus image is too closely tied , in my opinion , to the "commercial pop" , an idea of music that keep him in a box too small. And this condition, prevents him to comunicate to the public his wonderful world of art . A lot of people , distracted by a thousand things, do not get anything except for his festive image and catchy melodies . Too many people have never even caught a glimpse of his artistic depth . There is something that does not work. What I see now is a man who has a desire to change , to try, to do different things.

2 . In OOL there are many beautiful songs , some of theme are really wonderful . But there are too many wrong arrangements , a forced dance style , which does not fit at all in the style of Mika , I think much more elegant and refined. The first thing I thought listening to the album ( just a few months ago!) is that all those "disco sounds" had nothing to do with the Mika who I was experiencing. This guy has to make peace with himself and find the "right machine" to express what now, at 30 yers old, has to say.

3 . The promotion of OOL was a disaster , it ruined an album with a lot of potential and compromised the career of a talented artist. Whatever choice he takes away from that scheme , including making XF in Burkina Faso , it will be better than that strategy .

4 . Changing scheme often means also changing the starting point.

Much better than banging your head against the same wall.

Re-starting from a " comfort zone " , such as France or Italy , can give him a warm and thick blanket, able to help him in more hostile lands (professionally speaking ), such as England or America. Step by step you can go far...

 

For all these reasons, it seems to me that the choices of Mika, for now, are fairly consistent with a general strategy of chaniging and repositioning on the musical market. We will se.

 

I bolded some sentences of your post, totally agree with you that he is a true artist who can do many things. He is still young and has a long and interesting career ahead and I personally can't wait to see what it brings. I'm looking forward to new music (many albums!), small acoustic tours, theater shows, a huge arena show (PDP style), film soundtracks, different design/illustration projects, writing projects... I love watching what he does and I'm sure he can also show people a public image describing all this. In France and Italy he has already done collaborations and written columns and done some good-quality interviews (showing deeper his personality).

 

What I also see is that many old fans don't want to see this evolving and still see him in much more fixed role as a pop-singer and I partly understand it as his music is/will be the most important reason we are all here. I've always thought acoustic shows are the best things he has ever done but the more time goes by the more I start to miss also his theatrical shows and I want to see more of them in the future.

 

The promotion of TOOL was a disaster but I love the album because it introduced those beautiful songs to us and not talking about the exact studio versions on album but the songs (especially acoustic versions) I've heard live. It's wonderful music and deserved so much more.

 

We just need to look at the future, imo. He will do his current projects and continue making music (and probably many other things as well) and I hope he takes his time and thinks these issues through. What kind of public image he wants to have, how to make the promotion work this time etc. I believe he can make everything work, would be totally irrational (for me) to think otherwise and I'll definitely be waiting whatever happens.

[tiibet]

that's an interesting point of view, and maybe it summarizes his current status in italy. in the beginning, he always said he didn't get accepted by the pop world, because his music was too unique. it had a message, and wasn't "just pop". i wouldn't say that the songs on tool are much more pop than those on licm, except celebrate, but he doesn't manage anymore to get across the message, like for example in ool - he hardly talked about that song in interviews. so yes, i guess his image has shifted towards pure pop, and this doesn't suit him, i agree with you there. he isn't so one-dimensional (hope that expression makes sense in english), and i mean that *within* his music, so he shouldn't sell himself like that. i don't mind projects like swatch etc., but casting shows support this pop image, in my opinion, and not his own creative image as a serious artist.

 

I think XF has shown his knowledge of Italy/Italian culture in a new way (and not only his pop image) but it's a complex issue, there are also a lot of people interested in him only because he is a celebrity atm

[Marta.]

I also think that for many many people pop is a synonymous of superficial, commercial, and a little bit silly. No neuron is on while you're listening to pop music. Just relax. I'm not of this opinion, and i know that even Mika is not. But this is a real problem, for me. From a man who defines himself a pop singer, who publish a song like Celebrate as his first single (and in this way, who makes it his "manifesto" ), people expetc only (only!) dance songs and simple ballads. They are not willing to receive something different and to convince them to change their minds now is very difficult. I repeat, something is wrong.

 

Tv shows are something different, they transport Mika in other possible contexts, they are a kind of way.

[Alireine]

Reading all you comments about his image and the "message" of TOOL, I went to check TOOL's songs, and the only songs with a strong interesting message that I could find are:

- Origin of Love

- Heroes

- Emily / Elle me dit

That's not a lot

Others are "only" ballads, love songs, with a love message, but nothing really deeper than that imo. That doesn't mean that I don't like most of TOOL's songs, but in a "message" point of view, TOOL is not as interesting as the 2 first albums.

 

Edit: forgot Popular Song in the list!

Edited May 30, 2014 by Alireine