Sephira Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I have not been raised Catholic, I live in a country of Christian culture even if it is considered secular. I became a Catholic I have not been in catechism when I was a child but like many children I was wondering how this or that done, or more complex things like the soul. I found many answers in science programs that were normally for older people. But I had this feeling in me that something greater than I was, it wasn't a need that God exists but the fact of his existence felt. Anyway we can not prove God's existence or non existence so peace and love I love history of civilizations, it is really interesting and teach us what it is that homosexuality as a term and definition do not exist before the mid-nineteenth century. In ancient civilizations before and after the arrival of monotheism sexual orientation does not exist because in fact what we define today as homosexuality was in those times of minor cases and represented less than one percent of the population . This was especially sex between men who were seen with suspicion because thereby they lost their semances for non-procreative. Sex between women were much better tolerated. In the Old and New Testaments is not the fact of loving someone of the same sex is seen as a sin but the act of sex between men (I do not have the right to write the exact word on the forum but I hope you know what I mean ). I enjoy reading the Bible because it is made of ancient texts, but to understand them one must put themselves in the context of the times what they were writing. It made me sorry for Mika is when I saw his picture in response to the question "Where will you be in five years?", he represented himself in the underworld. It hurt me not because I think it will go to Hell (he is not too sweet for that ) but because he seems to think he will go to Hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellody Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 In ancient civilizations before and after the arrival of monotheism sexual orientation does not exist because in fact what we define today as homosexuality was in those times of minor cases and represented less than one percent of the population . i'm rubbish at history, and maybe i mix up something there, but wasn't homosexuality perfectly normal and accepted in ancient greece? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilseh1983 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 i'm rubbish at history, and maybe i mix up something there, but wasn't homosexuality perfectly normal and accepted in ancient greece? yes, that's what i always heard/learnt as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 i'm rubbish at history, and maybe i mix up something there, but wasn't homosexuality perfectly normal and accepted in ancient greece? Sex between men wasn't prohibited but not tolerated, you have painting of Ancient Greece with men trying to have sex together and a bull charging for killing or separate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnaMariaPetra Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) i'm rubbish at history, and maybe i mix up something there, but wasn't homosexuality perfectly normal and accepted in ancient greece? Yes it was. The Greek soldiers even fought in duos of (Male) lovers so that they would do their utmost ho protect each other. Edited August 5, 2012 by AnnaMariaPetra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilseh1983 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Sex between men wasn't prohibited but not tolerated, you have painting of Ancient Greece with men trying to have sex together and a bull charging for killing or separate them. maybe there's indeed some images like that, but there's also images without the bull, i myself haven't seen one with the bull before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian23 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 If his happy which he obviously is then its cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 maybe there's indeed some images like that, but there's also images without the bull, i myself haven't seen one with the bull before. The one with the bull is in one Cyclades islands. I know there is others paintings without bull because for soldiers it was an initiatic passage to have sexual relation with a man but it wasn't a real homosexuality. All greeks soldiers wasn't gay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilseh1983 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 The one with the bull is in one Cyclades islands.I know there is others paintings without bull because for soldiers it was an initiatic passage to have sexual relation with a man but it wasn't a real homosexuality. All greeks soldiers wasn't gay do you have a link to that image maybe? (off topic but i'm kinda interested in ancient materials and remains, being an archaeologist, well not in job anymore atm ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macboll Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) As far as history is concerned, I learnt from my brother yesterday that homosexuality already existed in ancient times (Roman or Greek History) and was not regarded as something dirty and abnormal as it used to be till recent times. I've never seen the bull scene depicted by Sephira (but I trust her saying), it is maybe a sort of green- eyed monster, an embodiment of jealousy? Edited August 5, 2012 by macboll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerSigaran Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I wonder if he will marry someday and have babies Or just a boyfriend, but whatever i'm so happy for him. cute pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IngievV Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 http://www.religionfacts.com/homosexuality/ancient_greeks.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilseh1983 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 http://www.religionfacts.com/homosexuality/ancient_greeks.htm came across this site as well, was thinking of posting it here too, you beat me too it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IngievV Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 came across this site as well, was thinking of posting it here too, you beat me too it Great minds think alike:thumb_yello: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krysady Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Another article about this interview: http://crushable.com/entertainment/mika-coming-out-as-gay-and-not-bi-instinct-interview-393/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 In France we have more that 25 articles about Mika coming out makes with just 2 sentences of Mika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikatuned Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 HIS beliefs are what should govern HIS life' date=' and regardless of whether we agree or not that isnt going to change. Feel free to live your OWN life how YOU want to. But it's quite a pointless matter to be so grieved and distressed over something that not only does you no harm whatsoever but that also makes someone happy.[/quote'] a point well made! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephira Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) For conclusion, in my opinion this is by educating that we fight ignorance and prejudice and in living with each other and not in communities , but I do not think coming out of celebrities or artists is a necessity to fight against homophobia because someone homophobic tells you that is still yet another artist who made his coming out. So he will not learn anything continue to think that being gay is a disease or depravity I can understand this century where it is normal to display your private life and intimacy in public place I come from another planet sorry Edited August 5, 2012 by Sephira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellody Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 there's a german article about it as well: http://www.queer.de/detail.php?article_id=17086 - i find it sad that they accuse mika of coming out to support his album, but at least the user comments are mostly postive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krjsantos Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 and here another MIKA's coming out is on a french newssite: http://yagg.com/2012/08/05/coming-out-de-mika-arretons-le-cynisme-par-xavier-heraud/ Good point of view, smart and common sense:thumb_yello: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guylainem123 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 well, all those articles are based on one article that isn't coming out til September. the power of media multiplying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I do not think coming out of celebrities or artists is a necessity to fight against homophobia because someone homophobic tells you that is still yet another artist who made his coming out. So he will not learn anything continue to think that being gay is a disease or depravity I don't know what is going on in Europe but there is a campaign in the US that is aimed at LGBT teens (I said children before but I mean high school aged teenagers, so non English speakers don't misunderstand ). The campaign is not aimed at homophobes, it is aimed at their victims. There has been an epidemic of suicides and celebrities are being encouraged to come out and show these kids that they have nothing to be ashamed of and no matter how desperate their circumstances may seem if they can just hold on a few more years it will be get better. I'm sure Mika has many reasons for coming out and we don't know exactly what they are (yet), but this has been cited as the reason by Anderson Cooper and many others for them to come out. These are very private people who had no reason to make public statements but they decided that speaking out was more important than maintaining their privacy. Whether this is a direct motivation for people to come out or not, I don't know, but the pressure is on for everyone to come out now because the gay rights movement has picked up a lot of steam in the past couple of years and there is a growing acceptance of homosexuality by the general public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macboll Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 To answer your question, Christine, you have to bear in mind that Europe means several countries ( 27 for the EU only) so there are discrepancies. Besides, even in the more modern, broad minded countries of Europe, mentalities differ. People from Northern Europe tend to be more tolerant (Sweden, the Netherlands, for instead) and for the other countries, it depends on their religious or cultural beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krjsantos Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I don't know what is going on in Europe but there is a campaign in the US that is aimed at LGBT teens (I said children before but I mean high school aged teenagers, so non English speakers don't misunderstand ). The campaign is not aimed at homophobes, it is aimed at their victims. There has been an epidemic of suicides and celebrities are being encouraged to come out and show these kids that they have nothing to be ashamed of and no matter how desperate their circumstances may seem if they can just hold on a few more years it will be get better. I'm sure Mika has many reasons for coming out and we don't know exactly what they are (yet), but this has been cited as the reason by Anderson Cooper and many others for them to come out. These are very private people who had no reason to make public statements but they decided that speaking out was more important than maintaining their privacy. Whether this is a direct motivation for people to come out or not, I don't know, but the pressure is on for everyone to come out now because the gay rights movement has picked up a lot of steam in the past couple of years and there is a growing acceptance of homosexuality by the general public. I think this is reason enough to coming out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krjsantos Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 well, all those articles are based on one article that isn't coming out til September. the power of media multiplying Indeed, imagine when exit the full interview multiplying in double to more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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