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MIKA to be Judge on XFactor 7 #XF7 Italia 2013


dcdeb

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In some shows yes, in other no, it depends on the specific idea of the production about what "crossing the threshold" is... It's the same debate I see here about #willywillywilly I guess. :wink2:

 

:naughty: i have no problem about him swearing

i was just asking as i know if he was a judge on XF or the voice, they'd edit out the swearing as it is considered family shows :blush-anim-cl:

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In some shows yes, in other no, it depends on the specific idea of the production about what "crossing the threshold" is... It's the same debate I see here about #willywillywilly I guess. :wink2:

 

In the UK the word willy is tame compared to some words that are used after the water shed (the term we use for when explict content can be shown on tv, usually 9pm).

Actually willy is hardly heard over here at all.

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We were discussing this with the girls who were with me at the auditions: too many cut and paste, often a too rapid medley.

With the chinese girl, for instance, they cut the part where she sang a Chinese song, much better than the Barbra Streisand song, which was the reason why they let her pass at the Bootcamp. Without that, the decision was unintelligible in my opinion.

 

Thank you about this background information :thumb_yello:

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I respectfully disagree.

First of all: I personally think that a person can be very vulgar without swearing, in the same way that someone can still be swearing a lot without resulting vulgar or offensive.

Of course swearing is not a positive thing, I mean, if I will ever had children it's certainly not a thing I'd teach them! But as an Italian speaker myself I can tell you that, at least in my opinion, he didn't sound offensive at all: there are various ways of saying things, and he did it in the funniest and lighter way, and -even swearing- him in tv was a big breath of fresh air, believe me.

In the same way you don't need to always act serious to actually be serious and professional; and according to me- and according to the Italian press and audience, for what it's worth it- that was the great thing about him: to express serious, interesting content, in a clever, witty and- when needed- funny way. He was described by a journalist as “a very rare mix of sarcasm and sweetness”, and I think we all agree that that's not “the thing he claimed to despise the most”.

The “willy” thing is just a 3 minutes long anedoct of an auditions process that lasted 3 hours per 5 days, and that was edited in two 2 hours long episodes, so I think that's very superficial, judging everything not having watched anything. And we shouldn't do, imo, a too much big deal out of it: it was just a moment of laughter, and -honestly- I find the comparison between the girls' families and Mika's family completely out of place. It was not disrespectful, it was just an ironic way of pointing out something objective. He laughed too much? He's human after all, and he said “I'm sorry” various times at the end of the judgement. So I don't find it “disgusting” at all.

I think that the judges are not deciding who to give the Nobel prize, there's nothing wrong, sometimes- I repeat, “when needed” and when it's not out of place- in taking things not too seriously. I repeat, it's just a funny moment, and it shouldn't represent the whole show, which actually was pretty interesting.

Of course some people who auditioned were trash, or not talented, but they auditioned, so they have the same right to be put on tv as the good ones. And towards the trash ones the judges have been very harsh actually, but never humiliating, and certainly they didn't indulge on them for the sake of entertainment: they seemed rather bothered by arrogant and not talented contestants.

And, btw, I don't feel sorry for the girls' mothers, at all. It's them who decided to send to the auditions three 16-year-old girls, (un)dressed like that, untalented like that: they have nothing to complain about, they should have been clever enough to talk to their daughters, to maybe give them some advice to improve themselves, rather than send them to a show, which has no fault: they let them sing once, they destroyed a Jannacci song in the most disrespectful way. They were then given another chance, and they blew it, that's it, you're not good enough.

That's the difference: Mika was rejected not because he wasn't good enough, because he wasn't “normal” enough. And that's why Mika, as a judge, is always trying to bet on originality, wether it is a weird Chinese girl, a rather scary “gothic punk” singer, a boy who forgets the whole song but you can see may have something original to say. He chose them not for the sake of the show, in order to laugh at them, but because he knows that being original, being natural -in good or in bad- is always better than being good but mediocre, so why not give them another chance?

That's why I really liked him as a judge, simply because he's himself, and I enjoy him and his personality, which also includes his lighter, sometimes childish, side.

That's everything, anyway I respect your opinion, and I know we'll never agree on this XF thing ;)

 

Loved every single word.

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Mika claimed he chose to do the Italian xfactor because it was different, its just the same old ,same old ****e,as in any another country. Who's he trying to kid? Himself ?Or his fans

 

Why do we go on considering things he tells to journalists as Gospel Truth? :naughty:

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I respectfully disagree.

First of all: I personally think that a person can be very vulgar without swearing, in the same way that someone can still be swearing a lot without resulting vulgar or offensive.

Of course swearing is not a positive thing, I mean, if I will ever had children it's certainly not a thing I'd teach them! But as an Italian speaker myself I can tell you that, at least in my opinion, he didn't sound offensive at all: there are various ways of saying things, and he did it in the funniest and lighter way, and -even swearing- him in tv was a big breath of fresh air, believe me.

In the same way you don't need to always act serious to actually be serious and professional; and according to me- and according to the Italian press and audience, for what it's worth it- that was the great thing about him: to express serious, interesting content, in a clever, witty and- when needed- funny way. He was described by a journalist as “a very rare mix of sarcasm and sweetness”, and I think we all agree that that's not “the thing he claimed to despise the most”.

The “willy” thing is just a 3 minutes long anedoct of an auditions process that lasted 3 hours per 5 days, and that was edited in two 2 hours long episodes, so I think that's very superficial, judging everything not having watched anything. And we shouldn't do, imo, a too much big deal out of it: it was just a moment of laughter, and -honestly- I find the comparison between the girls' families and Mika's family completely out of place. It was not disrespectful, it was just an ironic way of pointing out something objective. He laughed too much? He's human after all, and he said “I'm sorry” various times at the end of the judgement. So I don't find it “disgusting” at all.

I think that the judges are not deciding who to give the Nobel prize, there's nothing wrong, sometimes- I repeat, “when needed” and when it's not out of place- in taking things not too seriously. I repeat, it's just a funny moment, and it shouldn't represent the whole show, which actually was pretty interesting.

Of course some people who auditioned were trash, or not talented, but they auditioned, so they have the same right to be put on tv as the good ones. And towards the trash ones the judges have been very harsh actually, but never humiliating, and certainly they didn't indulge on them for the sake of entertainment: they seemed rather bothered by arrogant and not talented contestants.

And, btw, I don't feel sorry for the girls' mothers, at all. It's them who decided to send to the auditions three 16-year-old girls, (un)dressed like that, untalented like that: they have nothing to complain about, they should have been clever enough to talk to their daughters, to maybe give them some advice to improve themselves, rather than send them to a show, which has no fault: they let them sing once, they destroyed a Jannacci song in the most disrespectful way. They were then given another chance, and they blew it, that's it, you're not good enough.

That's the difference: Mika was rejected not because he wasn't good enough, because he wasn't “normal” enough. And that's why Mika, as a judge, is always trying to bet on originality, wether it is a weird Chinese girl, a rather scary “gothic punk” singer, a boy who forgets the whole song but you can see may have something original to say. He chose them not for the sake of the show, in order to laugh at them, but because he knows that being original, being natural -in good or in bad- is always better than being good but mediocre, so why not give them another chance?

That's why I really liked him as a judge, simply because he's himself, and I enjoy him and his personality, which also includes his lighter, sometimes childish, side.

That's everything, anyway I respect your opinion, and I know we'll never agree on this XF thing ;)

Aww :wub2: I love what you wrote Teresa :wub2:

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I've been thinking today. And I came to the conclusion, that both things are true: What Mika says himself about the show, that it's totally different and free and crazy and so on, but also what the critics of the format XF are saying, that XF Italy is not different from any other XF, that it's restricted etc.

 

And the reason is that there are two different points of view: On the one side what Mika has experienced himself. And on the other hand what we see as "finished" product. And between these two things is the whole production process.

 

Judging from the interviews he has given in the last couple of days and the way he is speaking in them about everything, judging from the clips showing him together with the other Judges, judging from seeing him in the first episode and in the preview clip I really believe him that he has much fun there, that he fits in very well with the others, that Morgan and Elio are non-conform people, that they are giving originality and individuality a chance, that Mika isn't compromising himself or is pretending anything for the show, that it's very free there…

 

But not so free is the way how everything is produced, how it's cut, which scenes are chosen, the "mise-en-scène" (which felt artificial for me). It's XF after all. And of course they put it together in the XF-way. And so, in the end, it's in some ways only one of the many XF shows in XF style, nothing more. Maybe it will be one of the better XF-shows in the end, we will see. But it will be all the time a XF show, it won't transform in a magic way into some new, great Casting Show of its own kind.

 

It may be a parcel with a nice filling - but you can't get rid of the wrapping.

 

But Mika isn't telling us about an episode he has seen on TV, he is telling us about what he has experienced. And therefore I think that both opinions are true in some way.

 

So far my perception at the moment, it can change in any direction after seeing more 001_rolleyes.gif

 

Oh, and just for the protocol:

 

The fact that so many people think this clip was hilarious and charming and respectful when I think it's disgusting tells me I am not likely to agree on the rest of the show either.

 

This one scene I found only hilarious :wink2:

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I've been thinking today. And I came to the conclusion, that both things are true: What Mika says himself about the show, that it's totally different and free and crazy and so on, but also what the critics of the format XF are saying, that XF Italy is not different from any other XF, that it's restricted etc.

 

And the reason is that there are two different points of view: On the one side what Mika has experienced himself. And on the other hand what we see as "finished" product. And between these two things is the whole production process.

 

Judging from the interviews he has given in the last couple of days and the way he is speaking in them about everything, judging from the clips showing him together with the other Judges, judging from seeing him in the first episode and in the preview clip I really believe him that he has much fun there, that he fits in very well with the others, that Morgan and Elio are non-conform people, that they are giving originality and individuality a chance, that Mika isn't compromising himself or is pretending anything for the show, that it's very free there…

 

But not so free is the way how everything is produced, how it's cut, which scenes are chosen, the "mise-en-scène" (which felt artificial for me). It's XF after all. And of course they put it together in the XF-way. And so, in the end, it's in some ways only one of the many XF shows in XF style, nothing more. Maybe it will be one of the better XF-shows in the end, we will see. But it will be all the time a XF show, it won't transform in a magic way into some new, great Casting Show of its own kind.

 

It may be a parcel with a nice filling - but you can't get rid of the wrapping.

 

But Mika isn't telling us about an episode he has seen on TV, he is telling us about what he has experienced. And therefore I think that both opinions are true in some way.

 

So far my perception at the moment, it can change in any direction after seeing more 001_rolleyes.gif

 

Oh, and just for the protocol:

 

 

 

This one scene I found only hilarious :wink2:

 

Interesting perspective :thumb_yello:

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is someone able to download the two parts from here?

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x159iwb_riassunto-x-f-7-audizioni-prima-puntata-parte-1_shortfilms

 

the second part is in the list down the player

 

thanks for the link sabine! :flowers2:

 

i first got to watch the willy clip and wasn't sure what to think of it. i wouldn't have wanted to be in these girl's places, and i'm sure mika wouldn't have liked it either when he moved from paris to london as a boy, speaking with a "strange accent" (his own words :teehee:). i didn't think tho that mika was trying to be mean or doing this for the tv show, but just that he was very childish, and not in the most positive way in this case.

 

but after watching the rest of the show, i gotta say that the willy thing doesn't represent his behaviour for the whole show at all. for example, i loved how he defended that 2nd performer against the female judge who said the contestant was not original but just copying. that guy had a fantastic stage presence, and i'm absolutely on mika's side there. also this chinese girl or that woman who looked and sounded so weird - i was sure he'd give her a no, but he said he sees a crazy punk singer in her and she got a yes. he does mock people on the show, but all the ones he mocked got a yes from him - that's definitely different from the casting shows *i* know - the ones who get thrown out are the ones who get mocked. glad that's not the case here. i don't understand much of what the other judges say (whereas i'm amazed about how much of mika's italian i understand! :biggrin2:), so i don't know if they mock the candidates before saying no... but glad that mika doesn't. at least not so far, ofc it was only the first part. but i'm looking forward to see more of it. :original:

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I've been thinking today. And I came to the conclusion, that both things are true: What Mika says himself about the show, that it's totally different and free and crazy and so on, but also what the critics of the format XF are saying, that XF Italy is not different from any other XF, that it's restricted etc.

 

And the reason is that there are two different points of view: On the one side what Mika has experienced himself. And on the other hand what we see as "finished" product. And between these two things is the whole production process.

 

Judging from the interviews he has given in the last couple of days and the way he is speaking in them about everything, judging from the clips showing him together with the other Judges, judging from seeing him in the first episode and in the preview clip I really believe him that he has much fun there, that he fits in very well with the others, that Morgan and Elio are non-conform people, that they are giving originality and individuality a chance, that Mika isn't compromising himself or is pretending anything for the show, that it's very free there…

 

But not so free is the way how everything is produced, how it's cut, which scenes are chosen, the "mise-en-scène" (which felt artificial for me). It's XF after all. And of course they put it together in the XF-way. And so, in the end, it's in some ways only one of the many XF shows in XF style, nothing more. Maybe it will be one of the better XF-shows in the end, we will see. But it will be all the time a XF show, it won't transform in a magic way into some new, great Casting Show of its own kind.

 

It may be a parcel with a nice filling - but you can't get rid of the wrapping.

 

But Mika isn't telling us about an episode he has seen on TV, he is telling us about what he has experienced. And therefore I think that both opinions are true in some way.

 

So far my perception at the moment, it can change in any direction after seeing more 001_rolleyes.gif

 

Oh, and just for the protocol:

 

 

 

This one scene I found only hilarious :wink2:

 

Glad to know I'm not the only one who is thinking a lot about this whole thing:thumb_yello:

 

I like the point that you are bringing.

 

I also loved to hear Teresa's Italian point of view.

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I don't really watch talent shows like XF, American Idol, etc., so when my favorite person get to be a judge in one, I really don't know should I be happy or angry or what. I only thought "Yeah, I've never watch things like this, so why not?"

 

My first impression: Boring.

 

Even with Mika in it, yeah. Okay, I got excited when it comes to a good contestant, but when it comes to a bad one... I got a feeling like "urgh nononono just skip this one", and the comments from the Judges are predictable (except Mika's 'Willy willy willy'; I didn't see that coming).

 

Ugh, I don't know... I hope my feelings will change positively soon.

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Actually willy is hardly heard over here at all.

 

I know who says that? It is truly childish in the sense that it's a word used by children. I don't know how it can be considered hilarious in this context because there is nothing shocking about it unless you are a little boy. It reminds me of a colleague's young son who used to giggle every time an American said the word pants instead of trousers. If it had sounded like something truly vulgar I can understand how it would be difficult to let it go without comment.

 

I don't think it was understood before that I have no problem whatsoever with Mika swearing. I had no idea what kind of person Mika was before I went to my first gig. I didn't know anything personal about him except his ethnicity and that he had been trained in opera. When I heard him swear on stage it was a bit of a window into his personality and I liked it. It's one of the things that left a real positive impression on me believe it or not.

 

I don't agree with what some have said about language being so rich that there is no need for swearing. It's not true. I know how to articulate myself very well in English and so does Mika but we both swear liberally. Sometimes there is no substitute or the substitute is weak. Cee Lo Green's Forget You is a poor shadow of the original F*ck You. The latter is one of the greatest songs I've heard in years while Forget You is meh.

 

I don't like censorship on television and if it was up to me there would be no censorship on MFC either. As long as people don't call each other vulgar names I don't see the problem.

 

I've been thinking today. And I came to the conclusion, that both things are true: What Mika says himself about the show, that it's totally different and free and crazy and so on, but also what the critics of the format XF are saying, that XF Italy is not different from any other XF, that it's restricted etc.

 

I understand what you're saying but I think Mika has created a false dichotomy here. What is abhorrent about these shows is not that the judges are not free and crazy and fun, etc. I don't even understand where this idea comes from. I have never once thought to myself "American Idol would be so much better if Simon Cowell would just cut loose and tell us what he really thinks." I never saw much of X Factor but I've seen Paula Abdul acting so mental on American Idol that everyone thought for years that she had an out of control addiction to prescription pain killers.

 

The freedom and personality of the judges is NOT the problem. It is the very concept of the show that is the problem. It is reality TV so its purpose is to make entertainment out of people's emotions and put the entire fate of their career and lives in the hands of others for the amusement of an audience. And then there is the post-show problem of the people who "win" falling under Simon Cowell's control. Nothing that Mika does and nothing that is inherent in Italian X Factor (over all other shows) is going to mitigate these problems. All Mika is doing is helping to exploit people for entertainment and money. Whether he helps exploit original and talented people or boring medicore people is neither here nor there IMO.

 

Could Mika help foster some unusual talent on the show? Perhaps. But I think Rose is right that in the end Simon Cowell & co are the ones who are going to edit the shows (and therefore manipulate the audience) and be responsible for where their careers go once the show is over. I don't think Mika has the power to make anyone a star. If he had that kind of control he wouldn't even be doing this show because he'd be a superstar in the US and UK himself and would not have time to even consider judging on some foreign TV show.

 

Ok, I read every single post.

 

And the moral I got is that I will NEVER EVER AND EVER say in front of him that I #reallyreallyreally adore him.

:mf_rosetinted:

 

Indeed. :thumb_yello::naughty:

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I know who says that? It is truly childish in the sense that it's a word used by children. I don't know how it can be considered hilarious in this context because there is nothing shocking about it unless you are a little boy. It reminds me of a colleague's young son who used to giggle every time an American said the word pants instead of trousers. If it had sounded like something truly vulgar I can understand how it would be difficult to let it go without comment.

 

I don't think it was understood before that I have no problem whatsoever with Mika swearing. I had no idea what kind of person Mika was before I went to my first gig. I didn't know anything personal about him except his ethnicity and that he had been trained in opera. When I heard him swear on stage it was a bit of a window into his personality and I liked it. It's one of the things that left a real positive impression on me believe it or not.

 

I don't agree with what some have said about language being so rich that there is no need for swearing. It's not true. I know how to articulate myself very well in English and so does Mika but we both swear liberally. Sometimes there is no substitute or the substitute is weak. Cee Lo Green's Forget You is a poor shadow of the original F*ck You. The latter is one of the greatest songs I've heard in years while Forget You is meh.

 

I don't like censorship on television and if it was up to me there would be no censorship on MFC either. As long as people don't call each other vulgar names I don't see the problem.

 

 

 

I understand what you're saying but I think Mika has created a false dichotomy here. What is abhorrent about these shows is not that the judges are not free and crazy and fun, etc. I don't even understand where this idea comes from. I have never once thought to myself "American Idol would be so much better if Simon Cowell would just cut loose and tell us what he really thinks." I never saw much of X Factor but I've seen Paula Abdul acting so mental on American Idol that everyone thought for years that she had an out of control addiction to prescription pain killers.

 

The freedom and personality of the judges is NOT the problem. It is the very concept of the show that is the problem. It is reality TV so its purpose is to make entertainment out of people's emotions and put the entire fate of their career and lives in the hands of others for the amusement of an audience. And then there is the post-show problem of the people who "win" falling under Simon Cowell's control. Nothing that Mika does and nothing that is inherent in Italian X Factor (over all other shows) is going to mitigate these problems. All Mika is doing is helping to exploit people for entertainment and money. Whether he helps exploit original and talented people or boring medicore people is neither here nor there IMO.

 

Could Mika help foster some unusual talent on the show? Perhaps. But I think Rose is right that in the end Simon Cowell & co are the ones who are going to edit the shows (and therefore manipulate the audience) and be responsible for where their careers go once the show is over. I don't think Mika has the power to make anyone a star. If he had that kind of control he wouldn't even be doing this show because he'd be a superstar in the US and UK himself and would not have time to even consider judging on some foreign TV show.

 

 

 

Indeed. :thumb_yello::naughty:

 

:hi5:

 

I totally agree on the first part about swearing. Geez, I come from a place where we even turn swear words into verbs:naughty:

 

About the second part, I think that even these big shots (and the public because they're usually the ones voting) don't always chose the right person as a winner. I didn't watch a lot of previous shows like this, but the ones that I watch, the winner rarely tunrs into THE star. Look at Adam Lambert.

 

I also think my view is tinted because the shows that we get here are not the ones controlled By Cowell. They're still controlled by a big empire though, just a more regional one. In the first edition of Star Académie (already 10 years ago), there were a lot of good singers, but the one who got HUGE didn't even made it to the final. While most of them are still in the music business, she's massive.

 

I have to admit I just watch XF. I did like it. And I think it's obvious they rely a lot on Mika to make this season a success. I will probable watch other episodes, if and when I have time...

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I understand what you're saying but I think Mika has created a false dichotomy here. [...]

 

The freedom and personality of the judges is NOT the problem. It is the very concept of the show that is the problem. It is reality TV so its purpose is to make entertainment out of people's emotions and put the entire fate of their career and lives in the hands of others for the amusement of an audience. And then there is the post-show problem of the people who "win" falling under Simon Cowell's control. Nothing that Mika does and nothing that is inherent in Italian X Factor (over all other shows) is going to mitigate these problems. All Mika is doing is helping to exploit people for entertainment and money. Whether he helps exploit original and talented people or boring medicore people is neither here nor there IMO.

 

Could Mika help foster some unusual talent on the show? Perhaps. But I think Rose is right that in the end Simon Cowell & co are the ones who are going to edit the shows (and therefore manipulate the audience) and be responsible for where their careers go once the show is over. [...]

 

Good point :thumb_yello:

 

And now a lot of new thoughts in my head to sort out :aah:

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About the second part, I think that even these big shots (and the public because they're usually the ones voting) don't always chose the right person as a winner. I didn't watch a lot of previous shows like this, but the ones that I watch, the winner rarely tunrs into THE star. Look at Adam Lambert.

 

I'm not sure it's entirely a question of picking the right winner. I mean if you can convince half of America to vote for someone it's not much of a leap to convince half of them to buy a record. But once the show is over the fate of this person's career is in the hands of the corporation. Adam Lambert's success is in large part due to the fact that he distanced himself from American Idol as quickly and as far as he could. He didn't stake out his individuality within the framework of the AI machine but by breaking free from it.

 

Becoming a winner of one of these shows is like selling your soul to the devil. At least temporarily. For someone who is not an artist but simply a great technical singer with no vision this is perhaps the best and only way to establish a career. But for anyone who is an artist who prides themselves on their individuality this is exactly the same scenario that Mika found himself in with the record company trying to mould him into another Craig David to sell some records.

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I'm not sure it's entirely a question of picking the right winner. I mean if you can convince half of America to vote for someone it's not much of a leap to convince half of them to buy a record. But once the show is over the fate of this person's career is in the hands of the corporation. Adam Lambert's success is in large part due to the fact that he distanced himself from American Idol as quickly and as far as he could. He didn't stake out his individuality within the framework of the AI machine but by breaking free from it.

 

Becoming a winner of one of these shows is like selling your soul to the devil. At least temporarily. For someone who is not an artist but simply a great technical singer with no vision this is perhaps the best and only way to establish a career. But for anyone who is an artist who prides themselves on their individuality this is exactly the same scenario that Mika found himself in with the record company trying to mould him into another Craig David to sell some records.

 

I only followed season 1 of the US XF. The winner was a girl who could sing well, but without flavor. Cowell loved her. She totally disappeared after that and her album was a flop...

 

You can get big corporation behind you, but if you can't deliver, you won't stay.

 

That's my prediction for the girl who won The Voice in Quebec last year. IMO, other finalists grabbed the spotlight more than she ever will.

 

Anyhow I'm disgressing. And need to sleep on it to have more coherent thoughts

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Mika is funny in XFactor, a great judge. I was crying because I was laughing too much yesterday, watching the "Willy willy willy" video. But I don't like that kind of tv show, I'm from the same place as guylaine and cath but I never watch reality show here (oui, même La Voix et Occupation Double) and even Mika will not make me watch a reality show. It's, most of the time, boring and.. predictable ? XFactor uses the same strategy, a lot of "cut and paste" to make the public love the contestant they want. Mika can't do anything about that. :dunno:

 

I have to admit I just watch XF. I did like it. And I think it's obvious they rely a lot on Mika to make this season a success. I will probable watch other episodes, if and when I have time...

 

This is exactly what I think too. I can't blame them :teehee:

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